Ripon @ Carroll (late predictions???)

I got Carroll winning 2-1 in a very close and competetive match.

Carroll scores but Ripon ties it up. Carroll struggles the rest of the game to get thier last game winning goal. Patch poops on the field on the way out.

CU 4-1

Ripon 1
Carroll 3

carroll 2-1 in ot...i have a weird feeling about this game lol

3-0 Carroll as the norm.

7-0 Ouch.

Statement made. The rest of the MWC better watch it....

My view of the game. To tell you the truth we didnt even play that good. We had some nice moments but that bottem line is we finished our chances and Prentice and Hietpas up top were in great form tonight. Prentice had a great game and had some very nice finishes.

Now my view on Ripon. Even though the score doesnt show it probably the best team we have played so far in conference when compared to LF/LU. I suspect to see them come November in the tourney if they can get a win vs. Grinnell. That game will be a big one...

Also want to throw in that when Carroll had its subs in during the second half the picked up right where the starters left off and then some and showed that the future of Carroll soccer looks bright. A lot of talented players with bright futures

Craig i think you nailed it in how the game went. It seemed like Carroll got the usual number of chances, no more than usual but every goal had eyes for the net. Hietpas really looked good out there and is the classic MWC player...fast, strong, relentless. He's a tough match up.

Nice job by the Carroll back line and goal keeper, posting another shutout...not sure how many that is in a row but they may be looking at a Carroll record. I played on a squad that had 3 or 4 MWC shut outs in a row but i dno't think it was anymore than that.

BTW, Wickman's goal was flippin sweet. I had a great angle on it. Wow.

Carroll looked great from my view and their ball movement and finishing was top notch. Without a doubt the best d3 team I've seen so far this year (even though I've only seen about 5). That goal by 4, who I'm assuming is Wickman, was unbelievable. I don't really think any of their goals were very saveable as the Ripon keeper actually played fairly well.

From a Ripon perspective, they didn't look awful in some parts of the field and Carroll was better but by no means by 7 goals. I think some of the tactical decisions Ripon made were a bit off base and they didn't make ANY adjustments. It appeared as though they were playing with 3 guys in the back and their midfield did not drop well enough to support the 3. With Carroll's advantage up top, I'm not saying Ripon should have bunkered down in the back but they definitely should have put more people behind the ball. Their formation ended up getting them killed imo. Especially because it was pointed out to me that two of Ripon's starting defenders were hurt.

My last thought is what was up with the linesman flagging the Ripon guy after he scored for offsides when they were down 7 0? It appeared to me that he was actually onsides and the fact that he raised the flag on a play that close, with that big of a score differential annoyed the piss out of me. I was on the other side of the field, but I see no reason why he didn't let the play through. Did he look considerably offsides from anybody else's perspective? Cause I didn't think so...

I was on the bench for the offsides but out right back immediately put his hand up signaling that he was behind him so im guessing he might have been just off but idk. Regardless of the score the ref has to be consistent. If its offsides call it and if its a pk and the score is 7-0 call it.

We were up 3-0 against MSOE and a guy on our team gotten take out from behind in the box with 10 sec left. Any other time in the game or if the score was close it would have been a pk and the ref knew it. That pissed me off...

I hope Ripon makes the tourney because it will give them great experience for the next year because if I heard right they will have all 11 starters back not to mention recruiting...

Carroll is the team to beat in the MWC again. we definitely had a difficult time keeping tabs on Prentice and Hietpas while also watching Carlson...very dangerous 3 for carroll.

we look forward to seeing them in november and hope the outcome will be alot closer

[quote="Craigaldo"']
I hope Ripon makes the tourney because it will give them great experience for the next year because if I heard right they will have all 11 starters back not to mention recruiting...[/quote]

All 11 are returning...no seniors on our team

Can we please get some video of Wick's goal? I've been hearing all about it...

I have it on camera but my comp is not uploading properly. If you want the DV cartridge, you can post it. Let me know.

Wick's goal is on his facebook page Jake...

I did not plan on attending this game, but after watching the St. Norbert’s vs. Ripon match, I thought that the Carroll vs. Ripon game would give me a good control subject in Ripon to evaluate St. Norbert’s and Carroll.

Carroll has found their team game and they played outstanding this night. It would be hard to find any faults in their game from front to back. Their shots were rockets, not one goal was garbage or cheap, they controlled passing lanes and crisp passing on the offensive attack was present. Carroll is a well coached team and this was more of a display of what an excellent veteran coach can do with a team. Ripon’s rookie coach was outmatched this night.

Carroll is not impenetrable though, and just like St. Norbert’s, Carroll is sustbtible to lapses on defense. With the right strategy, one should be capable of scoring one maybe two goals. The St. Norbert’s / Carroll match-up on Oct. 31rst, should be exciting and physical (SNB likes to play hard, sometimes hurts them). IMO it will come down to the defenses and goal tending. Carroll appears to be the team to beat for the MWC Crown.

In Ripon’s defense, they are better than the 7-0 score, which could be misleading. They have enough talent, that they could have beat St. Norbert’s and to have kept this game closer. One posters opinion was that Ripon’s Midfield did not support the defense. I will have to respectfully partially disagree with this. Ripon came out with a flat 4 defense, something I have not seen before this game (usually y 3-5-2) and it appeared that their defense was confused with coverage assignments. From my vantage point in the stands, Ripon’s #19 left side mid. was busting butt, up and down the field and I thought did a good job at limiting Carroll’s Speedy #10, to no easy goals or crosses. Ripon’s midfielders were exhausted and on the contrary were slow to support the forwards (hard to score 2 against 4), due to confusions in the defensive third. Ripon would have been wiser to have waited to implement the flat 4 until they were more comfortable with it. Yes I am aware that Ripon had a center defender out on injury, but from what I have seen, they have played better in the defensive center since the injury. Ripon’s defensive wings have fallen off a little IMO.

Heard parents talking in the stands that one of Ripon’s starting goalies quit before the game. I am not sure if this was a factor since I thought the game goalie did a great job under the constant pressure.

Carroll was impressive and very in sync, can they stay consistent and will someone be able find a nick in the armor? Based on this one game, it would be hard.

noworries wrote:Ripon’s defensive wings have fallen off a little IMO.

not sure what you mean by this? just curious

It's not a slight against your team, i thought the backs should have gotten more involved in the attack. Without that, carroll's offense can cheat and not respect the outlet and Ripon is almost playing down one or two attackers.

Outside backs NEED to attack and attack very often. If they don't, it's a useless formation.

noworries wrote:

In Ripon’s defense, they are better than the 7-0 score, which could be misleading. They have enough talent, that they could have beat St. Norbert’s and to have kept this game closer. One posters opinion was that Ripon’s Midfield did not support the defense. I will have to respectfully partially disagree with this. Ripon came out with a flat 4 defense, something I have not seen before this game (usually y 3-5-2) and it appeared that their defense was confused with coverage assignments. From my vantage point in the stands, Ripon’s #19 left side mid. was busting butt, up and down the field and I thought did a good job at limiting Carroll’s Speedy #10, to no easy goals or crosses. Ripon’s midfielders were exhausted and on the contrary were slow to support the forwards (hard to score 2 against 4), due to confusions in the defensive third. Ripon would have been wiser to have waited to implement the flat 4 until they were more comfortable with it. Yes I am aware that Ripon had a center defender out on injury, but from what I have seen, they have played better in the defensive center since the injury. Ripon’s defensive wings have fallen off a little IMO.

Umm I'm not sure if we were watching the same game, cause from my vantage point Ripon definitely only had 3 in the back and they never played a flat four. In fact, I think it may have helped if they put 4 in the back during this particular game. Could you please tell me who their 2 cbs were? Cause I only saw one, who I believe was #14.

Lastly, you really think Ripon has played better since the injury of their starting centerback?!? The same Ripon that has given up 4 and 7 goals respectively since then? I seriously question your knowledge if that's your belief. Their current cb, 14, was a starting midfielder up to that point. He appears to be out of position playing there and would add a lot more if he could play his natural position, so it has had somewhat of a domino effect on the team. I would really appreciate it you could elaborate on that statement cause I disagree 100%.

For the record.

1st) Carroll's second goal was flagged offsides, should have been offsides. The mid ref who overroad the line ref ****ing up (I was watching from on top of the announcement booth and I could see how far offsides he was).

2nd) The direct kick 5 feet outside of the box in the first half should have been a pk based on where the foul occured, another woops by the mid ref I guess.

3rd) I disagree with someone who posted above saying that Ripon didn't drop enough back. In the first half Ripon had so many back their attack was crippled before it even got started... I was also surprised at how much room the Carroll defenders gave to the Ripons fowards. I'm not sure if it was because they were so fast or the defenders are slow..they could have broken off so many attacks earlier by being a bit more aggresive and cutting out easy balls.

I can't believe they put up 7 the way they were playing. Crazy!

The goal was allowed because he was offsides and NOT in the play. Called "passive offsides" and the way the center called it just shows his experience. It was a good call and it pisses me off when linesman put the flag up so quickly without letting the play Develop. For my example of this, look at Messiahs overtime goal in the first round of the NCAA tourney at their website. perfect example of experienced officiating

That is a sign of a good refereeing crew. A linesmen needs to keep eye contact with the center whenever his flag goes up. If the center does not want the call it is a quick hand wave and they both continue in the play.

With this particular play, it looks like the ref threw his flag up before the player that was in an offside position touched the ball or was involved in the play. If that is the case, then I agree with Craigaldo. The Assistant needs to have patience, especially at the college level, to see the play develop. It's a simple rule but through the course of play, things can get fast and referees make mistakes just like the players and coaches.

The ball was played across at the end line....the ball popped in the air just outside the six...the Ripon defenders that were on the touchline pushed up to pressure the ball in the air. Andy Prentice was on the ground from the play got up and watched the header from the six sail in to the corner. If Andy made an attempt to flick it or go after it then call the offsides but he simply just watched the ball go in and thats the reason the ref made the right call.

Here is the link to a great officiating crew letting the play develop...

http://www.messiah.edu/athletics/sports/mens_soccer/fans/2008%20Video.html

Click on the - Medaille University (NCAA 1st Round)— 11-15-08

You are not kidding. That was a great no call by BOTH the center and the linesmen. Obviously we could not see the Assistant Referee but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. I think we would be in agreement that we have seen similar plays to that blown dead faster than once could even blink.

Great no call on, a seemingly, important moment in an important game.

TOSASOCCER26
These are just observations and no disrespect to any players and what Carter and Cpschult wrote is what I have observed in watching the SNC and Carroll games, in regards to Ripon’s defensive wing play. It is understood that players perform on the field, but coaching staffs need to adjust a teams tactics and strategies based on their opponent, match-ups, game film a previous performances (what’s working and what’s not). Thus giving the players the best possible chance to succeed.

CELTIC11
Flat 4 – We will have to agree to disagree on this point. However, I have some still photos from the starting formations of both teams and Ripon was 4 strong in the defense. The photos do not give me any clear shots of the numbers of the players. Did Ripon choose to adjust out of this formation during the game? Could their executing of the formation been flawed? Hard to tell, since there were a lot of people in the back-field (as Cpschult also observed).

Flat 4: (Just a Term)

Channel the offense: The term "flat back four" is misleading because one of the cardinal rules of a flat back four is "never be flat." Never stand in a straight line across the field. The defense should be lined up diagonally. This way the offense is forced to go where there's more space. Doing this will allow the defense to know ahead of time, which side the offense wants to go to. That way, the defensive mids can react accordingly.
Do you have any speed on your team? I try to keep one of my fastest players at center back which pretty much kills off the threat of teams trying to go long on us (I always have 1 player back who will get there first).

You are also going to need a very active keeper that does more then cover his goal and does more then cover his area. You need a sweeper keeper.

Maybe celtic11 you mis-read the formations, just a thought.

Beating the Flat 4 zone defense:

One way is look to through pass when the ball is in the center of the field just before your dribbler gets into your offensive half of the field.

Also once you get their backs to retreat you can work the ball underneath that retreat and get shots off while they are retreating.

Also you can have a wing mid make an on the ground cross or an aired cross leading all those retreating backs so now the ball is crossed behind them. Do that anytime from the beginning of your offensive half to your area. Do it within that distance so now even one attacker can beat the four zone backs because your lone attacker can see the ball all the way, and the backs can't, they are back doored by the ball.

Carroll executed this perfectly all night and it is how they were able to get 7 scores on the board.

Celtic11

I do not wish to address the issue of the center backs in-depth in this public forum, since perception of the written word can be misinterpreted. However, I have seen Ripon 4 times so far this year and in the earlier season games, goals against Ripon came from the center, center did not possess adequate speed, although Ripon had a 6’6” center, he was out-jumped and height advantage was neutralized (at the Beliot game, Beliot had 2 header opportunities to score from one corner kick, one on one against your center defender). Your defensive wing play covered for many mistakes in the center. Because of the over-use of your defensive wings, it appears Ripon’s defense is sporting some injuries. On a good note, your center defense early on, was a big body that helped on throw-ins and when body-on-body play could be used, but only when the ball movement was stopped or slowed. I feel he would have been perfect for a midfield position and rotating him with another player frequently to keep him fresher.

I am in agreement with Carter and Cpschult and please remember I predicted some teams (like Ripon) to be possible spoilers this season. Ripon just ran into a buzz saw that night, against a team having their “A” game and a seasoned coach. Carroll executed their game plan flawlessly.

I suppose we will have to agree to disagree on the formations, cause from my perspective I definitely saw a three back system. I know what a flat four is and looks like and that was not it, they were left countless times with 3 in the back.

Also to me, your infatuation with speed is quite annoying. Obviously, you would love to have speed in your center backs. But it seems as though you are suggesting Ripon throw any player with speed back there. Just as important, if not more important, in a center back are the ability to distribute, win balls, strength, and knowledge of the game. If I were a coach I would look at multiple factors before I even thought about speed. Speed is not vital in a center back but it is appreciated. Many of the greatest center backs in the world have little speed, but make up for it through their strength and overall ability to play.

I was not at the Beloit game, but I was told that earlier in the week their center back had a concussion and was playing with stitches in his head. I can see why he may have been a bit timid to go up for air balls considering it was his first game back. I was also told that they did a fine job containing the younger Wilkins brother, who did little in that game. And if that's your only complaint, then again your reasoning is somewhat ridiculous. I'm still totally dumbfounded how you can suggest somebody is better off after they've give up 4 and 7 goals since an injury. Maybe because they had faster players back there?!?

Craigaldo wrote:The goal was allowed because he was offsides and NOT in the play. Called "passive offsides" and the way the center called it just shows his experience. It was a good call and it pisses me off when linesman put the flag up so quickly without letting the play Develop. For my example of this, look at Messiahs overtime goal in the first round of the NCAA tourney at their website. perfect example of experienced officiating

Except the player in that position forces the goalie to compensate...

Celtic11

You take any comments about Ripon’s play very personally and it’s obvious you are associated with their program in someway. Maybe you’re a friend of someone from Ripon, but having some background in profiling, your writings have tell-tale markers. Hack stated he was not a coach, but after I called him out, we have not seen much from him since. You sound a little like Hack. I would hope that I am wrong since this would be an inappropriate way to respond as one of the coaches. Also anticipated we may here from you about this game (Carroll and Ripon). I have some photos of both benches and sideline. Your pervious post stated about your vantage point was from the opposite side of the field as the lineman’s, thus putting you in Ripon’s bench area. I was in the stands opposite yourself. I will take a look to see who’s there.

As I read Noworries post, he only suggested speed as one of the ways to defend with a flat 4, along with other good insightful teachings. I do not see where Noworries is infatuated with speed, if a certain area of your game is consistently getting torched; I would not think someone would suggest putting someone slower there. Yes, there are other factors that must be taken into consideration, but you seem to defend with such vigor when anyone voices their opinion of this area or player. Noworries was dead on; his post was professional and respectful. Try to look at the games with a more unbiased view.

If Noworries is mistaken about a 4 defender defense, it eventually became that with all the people back there and in theory basically became that. This would put Ripon’s defense at a disadvantage, because their strategy was not set-up for it. Carroll however, adjusted to it, attacking in their offensive end in the fashion, as Noworries observed.

Nice post Nowories.

I already said in a post not long ago that I have a friend who plays for Ripon. I have been to three Ripon games this year when they have played in my area (Milwaukee) which were Carroll, MSOE, and Concordia. You may be able to guess who my friend is based on my posting. I know for a fact that he would be annoyed by what I said.

How big of a tool are you if you plan on looking at pictures of a game to try and find me? That's one of the weirdest things I think I've ever heard. I was near the bottom of the bleachers right where you enter into the stadium, which would put me on the opposite side of the field when the offsides was called that you're thinking of.

From my vantage point, it appeared Ripon was playing with 3 backs. Again, I've said I could have been wrong. And I feel some of the things I brought up about the game were in fact off base. Noworries brought up great points and I can't deny that. I just don't understand his infatuation and insistence on speed in the back, to me it never plays that big of a role in the back as long as you have skillful players who can position themselves correctly.

So yeah, Nice post noworries. Really creepy post kickit.

celtic11 wrote:I already said in a post not long ago that I have a friend who plays for Ripon. I have been to three Ripon games this year when they have played in my area (Milwaukee) which were Carroll, MSOE, and Concordia. You may be able to guess who my friend is based on my posting. I know for a fact that he would be annoyed by what I said.

How big of a tool are you if you plan on looking at pictures of a game to try and find me? That's one of the weirdest things I think I've ever heard. I was near the bottom of the bleachers right where you enter into the stadium, which would put me on the opposite side of the field when the offsides was called that you're thinking of.

From my vantage point, it appeared Ripon was playing with 3 backs. Again, I've said I could have been wrong. And I feel some of the things I brought up about the game were in fact off base. Noworries brought up great points and I can't deny that. I just don't understand his infatuation and insistence on speed in the back, to me it never plays that big of a role in the back as long as you have skillful players who can position themselves correctly.

So yeah, Nice post noworries. Really creepy post kickit.

I am pretty sure he meant he could find where you were on the field by the angle of which your pictures were taken. I dont' think he was looking for you in his pictures. Although, that may land him on his own special feature on Dateline...

I was at the game too and thought they were in a flat back four. It looked like they didn't attack much, if at all, with their outside backs, so maybe they didn't even know what they are playing. Who knows, Ripon is sort of a mystery to me this season, I can't tell if they are good, bad or average.

I forgot to mention...with a flat back four, I am not a person that loves speed in the middle. I would prefer to have the speed on the wings and play the unit tightly on defense and largely expanded on offense. If the flat 4 stays tight, speed is not such a necessity, i personally would prefer bigger players in the middle if I had to choose an attribute.

ok...im going to end all this "they played a 3 back", "no they played a flat 4" argument.

we played a 3 back system in the carroll game.

Two of Ripon's starting defenders were playing hurt. pretty damn hurt actually. and the other was a backup sweeper. And yes, it was a 3 back system (bad idea versus Carroll). Obviously Carroll still would have beaten Ripon pretty easily if the defense was healthy, but I don't think the result would have been 7-0. It's good to see Carroll showing some confidence in our play even though they shelled us. Hope to see them come November.

carter wrote:Who knows, Ripon is sort of a mystery to me this season, I can't tell if they are good, bad or average.

well seeing as how we have a better conference record then last season (1-7-1), beating LU, LF, and now Monmouth, id say we're obviously better then the conference preseason poll predicted us to be, which was 9th for those of you who don't know. I think that we have already earned some respect and have suprised some teams with our improvement.

Celtic11

Sorry for the confusion. My Photos show it was very close and I think a non-call on this play would have been the right decision. Offsides when this close, is very judgmental, one game its called and in another it's not.

I too am sorry about the confusion and for not keeping things respectful. Everybody who posted here brought really great insight and perspective. I can see why people would be upset about what I wrote and also how wrong I was about some of the things I said involving the game.

Kick it
As I have said before I am a Lawrence Fan. I have no reason to post on here. The only reason I posted on the Concordia person's post was because of the same reason that LFCDAD posted about the father and son, Sportsmanship.
I have had no reason to say anything because No one asked about Lawrence and Carroll. If they finished that game we would have lost 7-0 to nothing. Our one scoring chance was the came late in the game and the carroll goalie made a great save. No one wants to talk about anything else on here but who plays Carroll and St. Norbert's, or to slam Ripon.
I think mr. Craig's post was the epitome of sportsmanship and I would like to tip my cap to him. I wish more of you could be like that. So until this becomes a chat site about the whole conference then I will bother again.