Re: Is Hip-hop just hate speech?

by **RCBooba** Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:40 am

Group hug time

by **carter** Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:41 am

First off, it wasn't a research paper, it was written for opinion.

Secondly, your point on the Beatles is spot on. They were looked at as thugs because of their long hair and womanizing. My point is that how can music get worse? Not in terms of talent but in terms of the message.

Like i said in a previous post, I came across a few lyrics from Twista and someone else that were actually pretty solid. He wasn't speaking just hate but that is all i hear when i walk to lunch at work (in Milwaukee). Then when i talk to guys at work all they listen to is hip-hop/rap and tell me that i have no scope of music when they don't even know the foundations of their own genre.

I don't like JayZ or 50Cent but I can see how someone would. I'm not going to call those two in particular talentless but with the constant influx and watered down music that I am hearing...it's getting ridiculous. Rock and roll has had a same watered down influx (see Nickleback, yellow card or any other garbage boy band). The whole industry is taking a step back in terms of actual talent.

Hell, most rock bands don't write or read music anymore.

So i guess i'm saying, it's not just Hip-Hop, it's music as a whole. It's getting shitty.

Good points by the way.

by **RCBooba** Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:09 pm

I like this last post, Carter. I think you make your points more clear (to me at least) and I think one of the problems was that the argument (debate, clash of opinions, etc) started blurring lines where one person was arguing one thing and another was countering it but it was a different argument. Maybe I'm wrong. Either way, to me this last post is something I can agree with to the fact that I understand more to the point of what you are saying. It seemed that Ethan possibly understood you earlier, so maybe I just wasn't reading things more clearly.

On the note that music is getting worse...it'll be interesting to see down the road some 10-20 years what music from our era is still listened to. A weird example: I remember listening to the radio while playing pool with Jones and Creed's latest single came on. At the time Creed was pretty huge and didn't look like they were slowing down, and arguably had better views from critics than another band that is comparable, Nickelback. I remember asking Jones how he thought Creed would be viewed 10 years down the line (scary part: it's almost been 10 years!). And look at Creed now, if anything a mere afterthought. And take it with other genres. Tupac is still selling and listened to and respected, and it's been at least 10 years since his death. Yet I have a sneaking suspicion that Soulja Boy will barely be remembered in the next 2-3 years. It seems that there are a lot more 2-3 Hit Wonders nowadays than in the past, but it's hard to say since we didn't grow up in the 70s. It's too hard to judge the quality of music currently, and much easier to look back and pick out which bands have stood the (cliched) 'test of time'. Plus, you know that there is damn good music out there, it's just on the radio, or at least the general, popular radio stations. Just have to go out and look for those diamonds in the rough. Just remember to keep an open mind to different genres, peach Wink

by **cpschult** Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:52 pm

carter wrote:
50Cent - 187

Yeah and it don't stop,
I do a 187 on yo' motherfuckin block
Yeah and it don't quit,
It's G-Unit in yo' motherfuckin' ass bitch

50 cent is talking about killing (187 is a muuuuurddddder) someone and then basically saying you can't do **** because we are g-unit.. not anal penetration.

Yeah, the other one is degrading.

I also mentioned Mos Def and Nas... thought about talib qwali later, you never asked for lyrics, you asked who was better then tupac. Unless you consider tupac lyrics then that's just confusing.

by **cpschult** Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:59 pm

RCBooba wrote:

On the note that music is getting worse...it'll be interesting to see down the road some 10-20 years what music from our era is still listened to. A weird example: I remember listening to the radio while playing pool with Jones and Creed's latest single came on. At the time Creed was pretty huge and didn't look like they were slowing down, and arguably had better views from critics than another band that is comparable, Nickelback. I remember asking Jones how he thought Creed would be viewed 10 years down the line (scary part: it's almost been 10 years!). And look at Creed now, if anything a mere afterthought. And take it with other genres. Tupac is still selling and listened to and respected, and it's been at least 10 years since his death. Yet I have a sneaking suspicion that Soulja Boy will barely be remembered in the next 2-3 years. It seems that there are a lot more 2-3 Hit Wonders nowadays than in the past, but it's hard to say since we didn't grow up in the 70s. It's too hard to judge the quality of music currently, and much easier to look back and pick out which bands have stood the (cliched) 'test of time'. Plus, you know that there is damn good music out there, it's just on the radio, or at least the general, popular radio stations. Just have to go out and look for those diamonds in the rough. Just remember to keep an open mind to different genres, peach

Dude, tupac is still making music. The only hip hop group that really has made it big off degrading women that I can think of is the Ying Yang twins...not that I translate a lot of the ghetto slang, but it's the only one I can think of off the top of my head.

by **carter** Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:02 pm

cpschult wrote:
carter wrote:
50Cent - 187

Yeah and it don't stop,
I do a 187 on yo' motherfuckin block
Yeah and it don't quit,
It's G-Unit in yo' motherfuckin' ass bitch
50 cent is talking about killing (187 is a muuuuurddddder) someone and then basically saying you can't do **** because we are g-unit.. not anal penetration.

Yeah, the other one is degrading.

I also mentioned Mos Def and Nas... thought about talib qwali later, you never asked for lyrics, you asked who was better then tupac. Unless you consider tupac lyrics then that's just confusing.

I know what 187 is buddy...i saw the movie. Laughing

Most of his songs looked pretty ghetto...i think i actually know what he sounds like too. Win for me.

I'll look up the NAS lyrics...i'm sort of interested in what they play at this point.

by **musicislife** Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:01 pm

srry to those who like hip-hop, but i just can't stand it!!!

by **cpschult** Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:40 pm

carter wrote:
I know what 187 is buddy...i saw the movie. Most of his songs looked pretty ghetto...i think i actually know what he sounds like too. Win for me.

He's from the ghetto, he's also been shot 5 times, LOL!

by **ethan** Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:35 pm

RCBooba wrote:I like this last post, Carter. I think you make your points more clear (to me at least) and I think one of the problems was that the argument (debate, clash of opinions, etc) started blurring lines where one person was arguing one thing and another was countering it but it was a different argument. Maybe I'm wrong. Either way, to me this last post is something I can agree with to the fact that I understand more to the point of what you are saying. It seemed that Ethan possibly understood you earlier, so maybe I just wasn't reading things more clearly.

On the note that music is getting worse...it'll be interesting to see down the road some 10-20 years what music from our era is still listened to. A weird example: I remember listening to the radio while playing pool with Jones and Creed's latest single came on. At the time Creed was pretty huge and didn't look like they were slowing down, and arguably had better views from critics than another band that is comparable, Nickelback. I remember asking Jones how he thought Creed would be viewed 10 years down the line (scary part: it's almost been 10 years!). And look at Creed now, if anything a mere afterthought. And take it with other genres. Tupac is still selling and listened to and respected, and it's been at least 10 years since his death. Yet I have a sneaking suspicion that Soulja Boy will barely be remembered in the next 2-3 years. It seems that there are a lot more 2-3 Hit Wonders nowadays than in the past, but it's hard to say since we didn't grow up in the 70s. It's too hard to judge the quality of music currently, and much easier to look back and pick out which bands have stood the (cliched) 'test of time'. Plus, you know that there is damn good music out there, it's just on the radio, or at least the general, popular radio stations. Just have to go out and look for those diamonds in the rough. Just remember to keep an open mind to different genres, peach

Of course I understood his point...I am all knowing. In all of this discussion about the quality of music, we have failed to touch on a very important fact. The vast majority of radio stations are inexcusably repetitive. If you are able to listen to the average radio station, no matter the genre, you're probably stupid.

by **RCBooba** Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:42 pm

Call me stupid again. I dare ya.

by **ethan** Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:54 pm

Booba is stupid.

by **cpschult** Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:13 am

ethan wrote:Booba is stupid.

by **RCBooba** Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:51 am

See? Hip Hop isn't hate speech. The people on this site are! Sad

by **cpschult** Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:14 am

I'm a little upset that Klugie called Drago out about liking Eminem a bit early. I really think we could have gotten him to admit to liking him more, and then talked about how eminem bashes gays, jews, and homosexuals.

But he's white, so it's okay I think.

by **ethan** Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:53 pm

Eminem is a compelte waste of flesh. I don't care what you've been through or what sort of psychological damage you've got, it is totally unacceptable to talk about the things that he talks about in such a public manner when you have a young child. Rapping about killing your daughter's mother is not a legitimate form of therapy. It is, however, an excellent way to do some pretty good damage to your kid.

The gay bashing and other hate speech is also ignorant, and shouldn't be supported, but I don't see it as nearly as big a deal as exposing your child to such violent, hateful comments directed at her mother.

by **ethan** Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:57 pm

RCBooba wrote:See? Hip Hop isn't hate speech. The people on this site are!

I'm sorry, Booba. I didn't mean to hurt you. JUST KIDDING YOU SUCK!!! (throws something through the air at Booba) <-----that's right, I'm bringing back some Sandler

Speaking of things I watched and listened to last night...anyone seen Religulous? You should. Good movie. And while Booba isn't actually stupid, religion is.

by **cpschult** Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:25 pm

ethan wrote:Eminem is a compelte waste of flesh. I don't care what you've been through or what sort of psychological damage you've got, it is totally unacceptable to talk about the things that he talks about in such a public manner when you have a young child. Rapping about killing your daughter's mother is not a legitimate form of therapy. It is, however, an excellent way to do some pretty good damage to your kid.

The gay bashing and other hate speech is also ignorant, and shouldn't be supported, but I don't see it as nearly as big a deal as exposing your child to such violent, hateful comments directed at her mother.

I think rapping about how angry you are with her and her decisions than taking her to the ocean to see how far she can float. Even with all the bashing of his wife the thread of love for his daughter runs through the music.

Haven't you ever been so angry and so in love?
(FROM KIM)
Get the **** away from me, don't touch me
I HATE YOU! I HATE YOU!
I SWEAR TO GOD I HATE YOU
OH MY GOD I LOVE YOU
How the **** could you do this to me?
(Sorry!)
How the **** could you do this to me?

I don't think I could ever express myself the way he does, and for that I respect him.

by **carter** Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:59 pm

cpschult wrote:I'm a little upset that Klugie called Drago out about liking Eminem a bit early. I really think we could have gotten him to admit to liking him more, and then talked about how eminem bashes gays, jews, and homosexuals.

But he's white, so it's okay I think.

How dare you try to bait me and point out extereme contradictions in my posts/opinions. Not cool to use educated answers to uneducated people. Basketball

by **carter** Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:01 pm

cpschult wrote:
ethan wrote:Eminem is a compelte waste of flesh. I don't care what you've been through or what sort of psychological damage you've got, it is totally unacceptable to talk about the things that he talks about in such a public manner when you have a young child. Rapping about killing your daughter's mother is not a legitimate form of therapy. It is, however, an excellent way to do some pretty good damage to your kid.

The gay bashing and other hate speech is also ignorant, and shouldn't be supported, but I don't see it as nearly as big a deal as exposing your child to such violent, hateful comments directed at her mother.

I think rapping about how angry you are with her and her decisions than taking her to the ocean to see how far she can float. Even with all the bashing of his wife the thread of love for his daughter runs through the music.

Haven't you ever been so angry and so in love?
(FROM KIM)
Get the **** away from me, don't touch me
I HATE YOU! I HATE YOU!
I SWEAR TO GOD I HATE YOU
OH MY GOD I LOVE YOU
How the **** could you do this to me?
(Sorry!)
How the **** could you do this to me?

I don't think I could ever express myself the way he does, and for that I respect him.

I can understand your last line but not in what you are describing. I mean Eminem has some decent lyrics but I don't really like the ones you posted...maybe it's just me but i like the song "i never knew" or something like that...it's on the marshal mathers album.

by **ethan** Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:12 pm

I think rapping about how angry you are with her and her decisions than taking her to the ocean to see how far she can float. Even with all the bashing of his wife the thread of love for his daughter runs through the music.[/quote]

What does this line mean? I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.

There is no amount of love that makes it acceptable to explicitly describe killing your daughter's mother. It is not a plus/minus game where a negative can be compensated for; it is an absolute that a grown man does not expose his daughter to that kind of violence.

by **cpschult** Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:41 pm

ethan wrote:I think rapping about how angry you are with her and her decisions than taking her to the ocean to see how far she can float. Even with all the bashing of his wife the thread of love for his daughter runs through the music.

What does this line mean? I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.

There is no amount of love that makes it acceptable to explicitly describe killing your daughter's mother. It is not a plus/minus game where a negative can be compensated for; it is an absolute that a grown man does not expose his daughter to that kind of violence.[/quote]

-1 for failing the quote! What violence are you talking about. It's not like eminem killed Hailie's mother in front of her... or even hit her, or even sits her down in front of MTV and makes her watch his videos.

If a parent can't influence what his or her child listens to until they are 12-14, then that person fails as a parent. Saying one thing for shock value and doing another are not incomprehensible, people do it every day.

I mean, it's also true that you can hate one person and love another.

by **cpschult** Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:43 pm

carter wrote:

Haven't you ever been so angry and so in love?
(FROM KIM)
Get the **** away from me, don't touch me
I HATE YOU! I HATE YOU!
I SWEAR TO GOD I HATE YOU
OH MY GOD I LOVE YOU
How the **** could you do this to me?
(Sorry!)
How the **** could you do this to me?

I can understand your last line but not in what you are describing. I mean Eminem has some decent lyrics but I don't really like the ones you posted...maybe it's just me but i like the song "i never knew" or something like that...it's on the marshal mathers album.

Uh, I think I was thinking about the duality of love and hate. How especially potent it is. But then again I don't remember so whatever.

by **carter** Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:41 pm

cpschult wrote:
carter wrote:

Haven't you ever been so angry and so in love?
(FROM KIM)
Get the **** away from me, don't touch me
I HATE YOU! I HATE YOU!
I SWEAR TO GOD I HATE YOU
OH MY GOD I LOVE YOU
How the **** could you do this to me?
(Sorry!)
How the **** could you do this to me?

I can understand your last line but not in what you are describing. I mean Eminem has some decent lyrics but I don't really like the ones you posted...maybe it's just me but i like the song "i never knew" or something like that...it's on the marshal mathers album.

Uh, I think I was thinking about the duality of love and hate. How especially potent it is. But then again I don't remember so whatever.

To each their own. I was just wondering what you liked about it. I can see your point...i prefer me some rage against the machine if i want 'angry music'.

by **ethan** Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:53 pm

I don't care what anyone says, for my money, it doesn't get any better than some creepy Gary Puckett lyrics.

by **carter** Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:55 pm

I'm afraid to ask...did you get the first name wrong? did you mean Kirby?

Kirby Puckett lyrics

I'm fat, yeah
I'm fat, yeah
I can run faster than yo ass can
I can jump bitch
Jump high, yeah

ok...i just made that up, but if he did write lyrics those would be it.

by **cpschult** Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:42 am

Ah man, rage is good and all but you can't get angry to their music. By just listening to eminem I can get angry and pumped.

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