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The New Proposal

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The New Proposal Empty The New Proposal

Post by carter Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:30 pm

Thought this was interesting...

THE PROPOSAL



When a company falls on difficult times, one of the things that seems to happen is they reduce their staff and workers. The remaining workers need to find ways to continue to do a good job or risk that their job would be eliminated as well. Wall street, and the media normally congratulate the CEO for making this type of "tough decision", and his board of directors gives him a big bonus.

Our government should not be immune from similar risks.

Therefore: Reduce the House of Representatives from the current 435 members to 218 members and Senate members from 100 to 50 (one per State). Also reduce remaining staff by 25%.

Accomplish this over the next 8 years. (two steps / two elections) and of course this would require some redistricting.

Some Yearly Monetary Gains Include:

$44,108,400 for elimination of base pay for congress. (267 members X $165,200 pay / member / yr.)

$97,175,000 for elimination of the above people's staff. (estimate $1.3 Million in staff per each member of the House, and $3 Million in staff per each member of the Senate every year)

$240,294 for the reduction in remaining staff by 25%.

$7,500,000,000 reduction in pork barrel ear-marks each year. (those members whose jobs are gone. Current estimates for total government pork earmarks are at $15 Billion / yr)

The remaining representatives would need to worksmarter and would need to improveefficiencies. It might even be intheir best interests to work together for the good of our country?

We may also expect that smaller committees might lead to a more efficient resolution of issues as well. It might even be easier to keep track of what your representative is doing.

Congress has more tools available to do their jobs than it had back in 1911 when the current number of representatives was established. (telephone, computers, cell phones to name a few)

Note:
Congress did not hesitate to head home when it was a holiday, when the nation needed a real fix to the economic problems. Also, we have 3 senators thathave not been doing their jobs for the past 18+ months (on thecampaign trail) and still they all have been accepting full pay. These facts alone support a reduction in senators & congress.

Summary ofopportunity:

$ 44,108,400 reduction of congress members.

$282,100, 000 for elimination of the reduced house member staff.

$150,000,000 for elimination of reduced senate member staff.

$59,675,000 for 25% reduction of staff for remaining house members.

$37,500,000 for 25% reduction of staff for remaining senate members.

$7,500,000,000 reduction in pork added to bills by the reduction of congress members.

$8,073,383,400per year, estimated total savings. (that's 8-BILLION just to start!)

Big business does thesetypes of cuts all the time.

If Congresspersons were required to serve 20, 25 or 30 years (like everyone else) in order to collect retirement benefits there is no telling how much we would save. Now they get full retirement after serving onlyONE term.
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Post by lacey Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:34 pm

Wow.
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Post by Ollie Octagon Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:15 pm

They are an over paid bunch but there is no way you can cut political offices. Something about a Constitution protects that.

It is bothersome how these people almost all have criminal records and are rewarded handsomely for it. What they should do, that will never happen, is cut their salaries. If the pay wasn't so nice, maybe the positions wouldn't attract the rats that it does presently.
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Post by tictac Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:31 pm

Overall i think it is a wonderful idea, although the idea of one representative for each state is a little scary because odds are he will not be representing the values/beliefs of all the people in the state, but even with more than one I think that is an issue as well
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Post by ethan Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:05 pm

Hogwash. That proposal is baseless speculation. I don't think there is any reason to believe fewer legislators would lead to greater efficiency or to a reduction in pork spending. With fewer members of the House and Senate, each individual's power increases, which gives any single member more leverage to block legislation. Furthermore, by cutting the number of Senators and Representatives, each one would be expanding their constituency. The legislators would just have a broader base to get pork for. I think it is far more likely that each congress member would just seek more pork for an expanded constituency. Congress knows how much money the government has given out in the past, so there is no reason for them to suddenly feel the need to decrease spending at the risk of angering the people who elected them.

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Post by ethan Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:15 pm

Furthermore, I don't buy the idea that the private sector is much more efficient than the government. I've worked for a few major companies and am now employed by the government, and have plenty of friends that are currently employed by huge corporations. I don't think the government is very efficient, but I also don't think big business is any better. I have seen too many examples of wasted man hours, wasted resources, and inept management to think for a minute that the private sector should be held up as a model for the government to work towards. The experience of friends seems to mirror this (even those that work at the darling Microsoft have horror stories about awful management and ridiculous wastes of time and materials).
In my experience, and again this seems supported by the experiences of others, small businesses are for more efficient than big business or the government.

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Post by carter Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:31 pm

ethan wrote:Hogwash. That proposal is baseless speculation. I don't think there is any reason to believe fewer legislators would lead to greater efficiency or to a reduction in pork spending. With fewer members of the House and Senate, each individual's power increases, which gives any single member more leverage to block legislation. Furthermore, by cutting the number of Senators and Representatives, each one would be expanding their constituency. The legislators would just have a broader base to get pork for. I think it is far more likely that each congress member would just seek more pork for an expanded constituency. Congress knows how much money the government has given out in the past, so there is no reason for them to suddenly feel the need to decrease spending at the risk of angering the people who elected them.

Of course it's baseless! It's some nerd putting together salaries for the purpose of crunching some numbers. To me, the point is that there is way too much waste at these postions that really don't supply as great a benefit as the representatives might think they do.

The whole system needs to be readjusted. I remember Babe Ruth was asked how he felt about making more money than the president, he said "i had a better year than him". Although top ball players make a **** ton of money i bet the money is comparable when it comes to kick backs and what not. Not to mention the shelf lives of these "know nothings" is almost infinate.

Does McCain have 9 houses? Gimmie break, there is no way that guy has brought 9 houses of worth to this country. They are all crooks when it comes down to it. JMO.
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Post by ethan Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:52 pm

McCain's houses weren't paid for by his Senate salary, though. His wife's fortune is mostly responsible.

What should we use as a baseline for comparison to measure congress against? And how exactly are we measuring efficiency? My point is that they're doing a good enough job for the people to continue voting them in (incumbents win most of the time), so why should they change their ways?

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Post by carter Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:16 pm

I just don't like that most (if not most than a quater) have criminal records. It seems like a prerequisite that they are in trouble with the law at some point in their careers.
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Post by Ollie Octagon Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:06 pm

carter wrote:I just don't like that most (if not most than a quater) have criminal records. It seems like a prerequisite that they are in trouble with the law at some point in their careers.

Link? Rolling Eyes
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Post by ethan Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:05 pm

Here's what I got with just a few seconds searching:
http://www.ontheissues.org/AskMe/spousal_abuse.htm

Looking at the second batch of numbers as you scroll down...if you don't include the 117 for bankruptcy and the 71 for bad credit (neither are illegal, just show questionable judgement) but do include everything else, it comes to 34% of congress. I didn't put in the effort to try and break it down to alleged, accused, arrested, and convicted, which could change the figure dramatically.

Either way, I agree with Drago that our legislators aren't exactly model citizens. I'm a little surprised that Ollie advocates paying them less, because if I remember correctly you're on the conservative side, and that position flies in the face of conventional market beliefs.

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Post by ethan Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:09 pm

I have no idea what the compiler of those numbers means by saying that they got off on DUIs because of congressional immunity. That immunity has nothing to do with DUI.

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Post by Ollie Octagon Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:21 pm

ethan wrote:Here's what I got with just a few seconds searching:
http://www.ontheissues.org/AskMe/spousal_abuse.htm

Looking at the second batch of numbers as you scroll down...if you don't include the 117 for bankruptcy and the 71 for bad credit (neither are illegal, just show questionable judgement) but do include everything else, it comes to 34% of congress. I didn't put in the effort to try and break it down to alleged, accused, arrested, and convicted, which could change the figure dramatically.

Either way, I agree with Drago that our legislators aren't exactly model citizens. I'm a little surprised that Ollie advocates paying them less, because if I remember correctly you're on the conservative side, and that position flies in the face of conventional market beliefs.

Don't confuse homosexual with conservative, I wouldn't say I'm a conservative, I voted for Obama because of his political beliefs, not because of his LD. I am one of the idiot swing voters that likes to hear garbage about Iraq and weapons of mass destruction. The problem I have with Congress is that they make a lot of money for being awful citizens.

I am not exactly the bench mark of what your children should aspire to be, although maybe I should be. I don't know of to many companies that function with that many convictions leading their departments, that's why we have things called background checks. It is discouraging to see the head of our country going down such a path. Makes me think that a convicted felon should scrap working at McDonalds and should run for public office.

Like they always say, Congress needs their Hookers and Blow.
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Post by ethan Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:52 am

"Congress needs their hookers and blow."

Just congress? Hell, if I don't nail a hooker and score an 8 ball every 45 minutes I go into nasty-ho-and-nose-candy withdrawal.

You'll have to forgive my confusion of homosexual vs. conservative. I sleep with both of them, so sometimes I forget which is which.

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Post by Ollie Octagon Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:44 pm

You are going to be wonderful at teaching America's youth. You should start your lessons with definitions of such terms as "eight ball".

I'll be sending all of my illegitament children your way, as soon as I find out if the latest couple are actually mine. DNA tests will be back soon. Stay posted.
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