St. Norberts' Demise

This team has had it coming for years. They go from a stud coach to a guy that feeds off of those old recruiting classes. Guess what? The well has finally run dry. They have lost their talent in Winters, marcraf and countless other defenders.

They'll continue to be solid but their days of winning the MWC are over. The coach they have in place is pile, good luck winning with limited talent AND no coaching abilities what-so-ever.

bye bye norby.

Drago,

You do know that Dale Rhodes has resigned right? They are bringing in a local high school coach from the Green Bay area.

My prediction for Norbs this year is to place 2nd or 3rd in the MWC, with losses to Carroll and perhaps Grinell. Unless they completely self-destruct I can't see them losing to any other teams in what has been an extremely weak MWC lately. The gap between the top teams (Carroll, Norberts and Grinell) and the rest is becoming increasingly greater in the last couple of years and I would imagine that trend would continue this season.

It's funny how every year Lawerance is supposed to make the push to being a top tier team, ever year the get one upset win and lose to Illinois college...lol

I hadn't heard Rhodes resigned. That guy was such a bum, the guy before him was a stud coach (name?) but rhodes just lived off the previous recruiting class.

either way, MWC does seem to get weaker each year. i don't understand it either, soccer has been getting much more popular in this country...

Dwight Schrute wrote:Drago,

You do know that Dale Rhodes has resigned right? They are bringing in a local high school coach from the Green Bay area.

My prediction for Norbs this year is to place 2nd or 3rd in the MWC, with losses to Carroll and perhaps Grinell. Unless they completely self-destruct I can't see them losing to any other teams in what has been an extremely weak MWC lately. The gap between the top teams (Carroll, Norberts and Grinell) and the rest is becoming increasingly greater in the last couple of years and I would imagine that trend would continue this season.

Grinnell? Are you flipping kidding me? If you guys call them competition you might want to join a different sport. I've played against those scrubs in indoor on many occassions. If they were as concerened with the ball as they are about their hair, they'd be better off.

You're not playing their good players then. Their only conference losses last year were to Carroll (twice) and Norberts...and all three of those were by one goal.

"Join a different sport" Ollie? Did you play against Grinell in 2007? Did you watch them play in 2007 for outdoor? Maybe you shouldn't talk out of your ass. Grinell is a solid team and should not be underestimated. They are the 3rd best team in the MWC and are head and shoulders above the mid-level teams of Beloit Lawrence and Lake Forest. Plus whenever they play against the top 2 teams (Carroll and Norbs) it is a good game regardless of the outcome.

BOMBER wrote:You're not playing their good players then. Their only conference losses last year were to Carroll (twice) and Norberts...and all three of those were by one goal.

No need to make excuses for them. I've played them in indoor and saw them play against St. Norbert last year. If they ever run into a good team the defenders lean more and more on Lancaster. He's a great keeper but that's their strong suit.

Any team that leans on a keeper as much as Grinnell cannot be considered "elite". It's as though Grinnell ushers on the same kids every damn season, they never get better and they never get worse. Maybe you both think they are better because there is no competition outside of St. Norberts in the MWC anymore. Lake Forest has taken a total dump, same with Lawerence. If you ever lose to Illinois College, Knox or Monmouth you may as well hang up your spikes forever because they are utter garbage.

Get some competition in your conference before you start calling Grinnell decent.

How are you judging a team that you've played in indoor - which everybody knows is a joke - and one game?

And nobody every called Grinnell "elite"...all that anyone said was that they are a team worth paying attention to. You're the one that apparently played for UCLA judging by the way you're trashing every team.

Not sure that I need to play for UCLA to know that an Illinois College player, barely able to walk without tripping, is not a dangerous soccer player.

I saw one game last year, I usually catch two or three per season and it's always the same thing. Average.

You are putting them on a pedestal because there is no other competition in your conference. Although I do commend you for playing Hamline and Oshkosh, both solid programs, but looking at your teams success over the years does not qualify Carroll as a strong program.

All I am saying is the MWC is average at best. Congratulations on making the NCAA tourney and then getting massacred in the first round.

"Get some competition in your conference before you start calling Grinnell decent."

I'll get right on that.

You're right that Carroll got massacred in their first ever NCAA tourny appearance. But then again they did play against the defending DIII runners-up in Wheaton College, which has had one strongest soccer programs in the nation for the last couple of decades. If you have the stones to argue me on that one you are a ****ing idiot.

I have seen Wheaton play, they are a tremendous program and by all counts a 3-0 score doesn't look that bad.

My problem with the Carroll vs Wheaton game is that you had amassed a grand total of 3 shots in the first half and then 6 in the following half. 9 shots wouldn't be the worst feet in the world but the second half was played against primarily backups. Wheaton played 22 players that game!

If Carroll played 22 players in any game at any point in the season, they'd lose by at least 3. That is including the IC's of the world.

Back to the original point. I wouldn't be giving Grinnell infinite praise when you can't even out shoot the back ups of a truly good/great team in Wheaton.

How many tournament games have you played in?

I'm not really following this arguement fully...but...

it seems to me that the carroll guys are saying grinnell is solid, not great. I think even a program like knox or IC would be able to dish out the same praise without actually being good themselves.

Hell, i say the dolphins suck at football but you don't see me putting on the shoulder pads to prove it.

New prediction, Due to the loss of Dale Rhodes, no one in De Pere wants to play soccer anymore. Which leads to St Norbert’s droping out of the conference and in their place New Tribes destroys every team in conference including Grinnell.

hey garrett and church, post your shirt size and number in the WSC thread.

Jon does not want a jersey, just get some paint so we can but a number on his back, and a sticker of our logo we can place on his chest

Dr. Cox wrote:Jon does not want a jersey, just get some paint so we can but a number on his back, and a sticker of our logo we can place on his chest

well do you want a jersey?

BOMBER wrote:How many tournament games have you played in?

What does that matter? Why do I have to be an All-American to be able to judge one soccer team to another?

I just call it as I see it, I'm not trying to rub your name in the mud, I'm just not ready to call Grinnell a good team.

Yeah I'll take a jersey

Large, number 11 or 6...and the shortest shorts possible.

I don't normally don't get involved in these trivial arguments that tend to, as in this case, turn into pissing matches between the people posting. The fact of the matter is that Grinnell is not a great or even good team, they have success the same reason a lot of teams from time to time have succeeded in the MWC, they work hard. There was a time even at Carroll where we didn't have nearly the talent (ehem, skill) that the program has now, but we had the right combination of skill (JPS) and hard workers (Carl) and because of that we had success.

Now I realize that teams in the MWC might not stack up with your beloved Wheaton squad (pull out already guy, I think you've come), but in terms of quality soccer, the MWC is still just a toddler while teams like Wheaton are already shaving. So when teams like Oshkosh and North Park fall to these programs (Carroll & St Norbert), they need to look at where their programs are headed and take notice.

We all know that Wheaton is a Div III soccer program, but the school has a boat load money (look around the campus sometime, you'll see what I mean) and they use that to entice recruits. Div III programs can't offer athletic scholarships, but what Wheaton does is offer ACADEMIC scholarships that allow their players the same kind of financial benefits that a Div I school might be able to offer. No of course this doesn't ring true for all of their players, just like at a Div I school, but it certainly helps. (You can argue this if you want but I know faculty/staff & board members there who can testify to this being fact).

Oh and yeah Wheaton defeated Carroll 3-0 and held them to just 9 shots, but they've been there before. This was Carroll's first time in NCAA's and they played a team that's easily one of the top teams/programs in the country. So pointing out the fact that they're a good/great team is like pointing out that the sun is hot and bright. Thanks for the insight.

Now back to the original reason for this thread, St. Norbert. A team I've grown to hate over the years but respect because of their success. New coach and a quality class graduated, I would say that they have their work cut out for them, but it's not new territory. They'll still have that same mix of hard nosed defenders and skilled ball handlers that have brought them success in the past. The difference is now the gap has widened. The difference between the top conference teams and middle of the pack is greatly larger than it was even 2 years ago. A top team like St. Norbert could have a just slightly above par team and still make/win the MWC tournament.

Any MWC player, old and new, could tell you that nothing is given in this conference. Every year there are upsets and results that put a question mark on everyone's head. That's what makes soccer so ****ing great, it's unpredictable. What's not so unpredictable is me making anyone on this forum look bad, both on and off the pitch.

i haven't seen wheaton's campus but it seems that Carroll is on its way to becoming that type of program. that field is a major recruiting piece.

omeara wrote:I don't normally don't get involved in these trivial arguments that tend to, as in this case, turn into pissing matches between the people posting. The fact of the matter is that Grinnell is not a great or even good team, they have success the same reason a lot of teams from time to time have succeeded in the MWC, they work hard. There was a time even at Carroll where we didn't have nearly the talent (ehem, skill) that the program has now, but we had the right combination of skill (JPS) and hard workers (Carl) and because of that we had success.

Now I realize that teams in the MWC might not stack up with your beloved Wheaton squad (pull out already guy, I think you've come), but in terms of quality soccer, the MWC is still just a toddler while teams like Wheaton are already shaving. So when teams like Oshkosh and North Park fall to these programs (Carroll & St Norbert), they need to look at where their programs are headed and take notice.

We all know that Wheaton is a Div III soccer program, but the school has a boat load money (look around the campus sometime, you'll see what I mean) and they use that to entice recruits. Div III programs can't offer athletic scholarships, but what Wheaton does is offer ACADEMIC scholarships that allow their players the same kind of financial benefits that a Div I school might be able to offer. No of course this doesn't ring true for all of their players, just like at a Div I school, but it certainly helps. (You can argue this if you want but I know faculty/staff & board members there who can testify to this being fact).

Oh and yeah Wheaton defeated Carroll 3-0 and held them to just 9 shots, but they've been there before. This was Carroll's first time in NCAA's and they played a team that's easily one of the top teams/programs in the country. So pointing out the fact that they're a good/great team is like pointing out that the sun is hot and bright. Thanks for the insight.

Now back to the original reason for this thread, St. Norbert. A team I've grown to hate over the years but respect because of their success. New coach and a quality class graduated, I would say that they have their work cut out for them, but it's not new territory. They'll still have that same mix of hard nosed defenders and skilled ball handlers that have brought them success in the past. The difference is now the gap has widened. The difference between the top conference teams and middle of the pack is greatly larger than it was even 2 years ago. A top team like St. Norbert could have a just slightly above par team and still make/win the MWC tournament.

Any MWC player, old and new, could tell you that nothing is given in this conference. Every year there are upsets and results that put a question mark on everyone's head. That's what makes soccer so ****ing great, it's unpredictable. What's not so unpredictable is me making anyone on this forum look bad, both on and off the pitch.

Good post. I bolded the section that I agree with most. Carroll may be an up and coming team, I have seen their new facility and it will be great for enticing kids to enroll. I am aware of teams offering "academic" scholarships to athletes just to get them to attend their school. I would be surprised if Mobley wanted to pull those types of strings for any of his players. Maybe I'm wrong but he just seems to bull-headed to recruit like that.

Maybe this is the year Carroll catches up the Wheatons of the world but as an outsider looking in, I don't think they have the defense or hustle it will take to even that playing field.

From what I gather about Wheaton is that their financial aide is supposedly all 'need based' (My sister graduated from there with outstanding academic grades graduated with near a 4.0 and didn't receive a penny of financial aide). Now Wheaton could be making exceptions with athletes, but really that isn't important.

I'd agree with O'Mera that the MWC is made up of mostly hard-working teams who refuse to let down the intensity throughout the 90 mins. Its my opinion that Carroll has begun to move out of that 'hard work' phase with the addition of more skilled players who do not need to rely on hustle and a 'will' to win in order to get a victory. The only problem with that is in situations, such as against Wheaton, when Carroll is over-matched and they know it, their skill cannot be relied upon and therefore they were dominated. I'd say that Carroll had already psychologically beaten themselves before they even played Wheaton due to complacency of simply making the NCAA tourny. Every single player was happy to make it to the tourny regardless of the outcome, and that set us up for failure. But its my belief that Carroll has learned from last year and if they earn a spot in the NCAA tourny, they will not be satisfied without getting the W.

Although the physical grind-it-out nature of the MWC does lead to not so enjoyable soccer in terms of viewing, it is effective in scrapping out a victory against a better team. Its all about balance of skill and hard-work.

Ollie Octagon wrote:
Maybe this is the year Carroll catches up the Wheatons of the world but as an outsider looking in, I don't think they have the defense or hustle it will take to even that playing field.

Cruise on down to Wheaton Fri. August 29th at 7pm and you'll see if your speculations hold true.

I think the scrappiness started leaving with the arrival of that new field. Before the field you honestly coudln't take the ball through the middle of the field without it hitting a bad hop setting up a counter attack.

Carroll has a ton more skill than when I went there but that can also lead to cheap losses. When you play at fields like IC or Knox, the crappiness of them brings you down to their level. And, since all of their players are pretty terrible they sub the entire game forcing you to pick up your intensity just to match them.

I don't think Carroll will lose to the IC's of the world this year but a few games could come down to the end. If you are at home, I would expect 4-0 scores, that turf really plays to your benefit.

Dwight Schrute wrote:

Ollie Octagon wrote:
Maybe this is the year Carroll catches up the Wheatons of the world but as an outsider looking in, I don't think they have the defense or hustle it will take to even that playing field.

Cruise on down to Wheaton Fri. August 29th at 7pm and you'll see if your speculations hold true.

i didn't realize you guys played wheaton this year. Good scheduling by mobley. It's good to play the top dogs to know where you are at. Good luck churchie.

i haven't seen wheaton's campus but it seems that Carroll is on its way to becoming that type of program. that field is a major recruiting piece.

That field is a major recruiting piece, but trust me Matt if you saw Wheaton you would begin to wonder if you even when to a college at all. This is an entire different level, I had the chance to walk around the campus and explore it was utterly insane on what they just have. Like Ryan said the have crap loads of money, and taking a look at the campus in general makes Carroll look like we lived tents, gathered around the fire pit for class, and watched the old lunch ladies try to hunt down woolly mammoths for our monthly supply of food.

Speaking of Woolly mammoths, Wheaton actually has one.... if you push a button the entire woolly mammoth skeleton spins on a turnstile...he is also named Perry. I $hit you not.

Although Carroll's new field is a solid recruiting piece, schools such as Wheaton and Concordia Mequon have field-turf fields devoted SOLEY to soccer. They are on a completely different level.

hopefully i'll be making it on that bus trip. BTW, i have most of the games mapped out that we need to attend, reports, game summaries and such. Will you be home tonight?

Dwight Schrute wrote:Speaking of Woolly mammoths, Wheaton actually has one.... if you push a button the entire woolly mammoth skeleton spins on a turnstile...he is also named Perry. I $hit you not.

Although Carroll's new field is a solid recruiting piece, schools such as Wheaton and Concordia Mequon have field-turf fields devoted SOLEY to soccer. They are on a completely different level.

when did concordia get that?

Last year, we actually played the first game on it.

drago wrote:hopefully i'll be making it on that bus trip. BTW, i have most of the games mapped out that we need to attend, reports, game summaries and such. Will you be home tonight?

Yeah, I'll be around, we are playing at 6.

Dwight Schrute wrote:

drago wrote:hopefully i'll be making it on that bus trip. BTW, i have most of the games mapped out that we need to attend, reports, game summaries and such. Will you be home tonight?

Yeah, I'll be around, we are playing at 6.

i have a guitar lesson at 630, if you go to garretts at some point just let me know. There are some really good games to go to and since you don't practice on Thursdays you may be able to catch a couple of them (a lot of games are at south, 4 blocks from you).

I'm going to be going to a lot of Arrowhead games, have have Madison Memorial at home along with West and Pius i believe.

Norbert's has to many places to recruit from near to fall to far. I can see them having an extensive coach search if they don't have the kind of season they are accustomed to. Because their program has excelled for so long the school has to have high expectations.

I would say that Carroll's facilities have precipitated extreme interest from students who would otherwise look at a different school. Every sport is on the rise at Carroll (except the football team oddly). This is a direct result of larger classes, lower standards, and athletic renovations (not necessarily in that order).

So Carroll wins 1-0 having to play a man short for nearly 30 minutes. That is the sign of a team that is just not that good anymore (Norberts that is). Great job by Carroll though, showed their muscle in that match.