Who ya voting for?

hey garrett, who are you voting for? You should do a write in for Ollie, i'll write in for you...i swear. :arrow:

Obama...

It seems like the candidates are getting worse and worse. There are no strong willed people, or great speakers that make the final cut. Say what you want against Clinton but at least he moxy. So he was a bit of horn ball...who isn't? Wait...i didn't say that.

Both of them have serious flaws but only one of them has meaningful political experience.

I will vote for McCain. Obama is pure vanilla and needs to spend more time cutting his teeth doing real political work before he will be ready. Although it is tough to do that when you have a 24/7 ride on the hype machine. I think the Democrats made a mistake pushing Hillary out the door.

The problem i had with hillary is that she came across as too extreme. For better or for worse she pushed herself out the door...and as usual there is no viable candidate behind her. Lets face it, neither party has brought a qualified intellectual to the table in years.

[quote="drago"]The problem i had with hillary is that she came across as too extreme. For better or for worse she pushed herself out the door...quote]

I'm sorry but this is just not true. The Democratic National Party became enamored with the chosen one, and pushed Hillary right out the door. It can't even be debated, its what happened.

Quite simply, the DNP has a huge boner about the potential for African Americans to actually show up for the vote. Obama is the new age JFK. If you'd like me to elaborate walk across the hall

i don't know that they wanted either more than the other. Either way they had publicity on their side. Maybe they viewed race as the better publicity stunt to gender...my point is...the candidates are getting more and more watered down and middle of the road. Gone are the days that you have a great debator (lincoln), great economic prowess (carter) or the my way or the highway approach (FDR).

At least those three showed back bone. You could argue Bush showed backbone but by joining in a war trying to find 'weapons of mass destruction" then finding that there are none and still fighting that war...it shows back bone and ignorance. I'd prefer the first to the latter.

drago wrote:i don't know that they wanted either more than the other. Either way they had publicity on their side. Maybe they viewed race as the better publicity stunt to gender...my point is...the candidates are getting more and more watered down and middle of the road. Gone are the days that you have a great debator (lincoln), great economic prowess (carter) or the my way or the highway approach (FDR).

At least those three showed back bone. You could argue Bush showed backbone but by joining in a war trying to find 'weapons of mass destruction" then finding that there are none and still fighting that war...it shows back bone and ignorance. I'd prefer the first to the latter.

couple of points.

1. yes they wanted one more than the other. they wanted Obama. The DNP ambushed her through the media, through all those "leaked" reports calling for Hillary to exit the race. Even some of her original superdelgates "changed their mind" when the race heated up all of a sudden. Hmm I wonder if that was really their decision....after all supporting someone for 2 years and then all of a sudden changing sides at the exact point Hillary was getting railroaded must be a coincidence

2. I can make this promise to you. Bush will be absolutely crucified for 20 years about the Iraq war, at which time people will come to their senses and realize that the circumstances that thrust us into the war were inevitable. I'm not defending the way it has been handled, but I also think that the road we have travelled down has been mostly predetermined by the people. Its easy now to say something is right or wrong, but at the time, Bush's actions had nearly 100% support from the people AND the legislature. Hell, even Al Gore of all people admitted that the U.S. entry was pretty much an inevitibility.

While I am a Republican, let me take this opportunity to blast the Republican party for its inability to rally together and come up with any game plan. Losing so many seats in the HOR is embarassing. Where is the party leadership?

I think our next topic should center around the elimination of political parties.

you keep saying things that you can't back up. how did the democrats push hillary out? it was voted on, state by state, hillary lost.

Plaintiff93 wrote:you keep saying things that you can't back up. how did the democrats push hillary out? it was voted on, state by state, hillary lost.

you honestly believe this? or are you just joking?

I would hate to think that anyone is this naive.

Plaintiff93 wrote:you keep saying things that you can't back up. how did the democrats push hillary out? it was voted on, state by state, hillary lost.

also do you know what delegates and superdelegates are? do you know that parties call them up on a constant basis "advising" them who to vote for?

Finally, do you even understand how our political system works? Do you think that all Republicans wanted John Mccain to win the nomination? Here's the easy answer...no they didn't. But he was most likely to win so the party advised Huckabee to stand down so Mccain wouldn't have to waste resources running for the party ticket.

The EXACT same thing happened with Hillary and Obama. If you need it spelled out further please let me know.

datrain711 wrote:

Plaintiff93 wrote:you keep saying things that you can't back up. how did the democrats push hillary out? it was voted on, state by state, hillary lost.

also do you know what delegates and superdelegates are? do you know that parties call them up on a constant basis "advising" them who to vote for?

Finally, do you even understand how our political system works? Do you think that all Republicans wanted John Mccain to win the nomination? Here's the easy answer...no they didn't. But he was most likely to win so the party advised Huckabee to stand down so Mccain wouldn't have to waste resources running for the party ticket.

The EXACT same thing happened with Hillary and Obama. If you need it spelled out further please let me know.

So the reason that Huckabee or Clinton were pushed out was just a decision from their party. Yes, i understand that. You are assuming that Clinton was pushed out due to Obama's race. You think that the democrats can play the race card and attain more votes than they could be using a woman to attain those same votes. You are going off pure assumption, you may be correct, but lets not play it off that because some internet hard ass says it's true, doesn't always make it true.

African Americans generally vote democrat anyway, why would they need a black candidate to get the voters they'd have gotten anyway? The goal is to get the swing voters. For whatever reason they thought Obama was the better man for the job, it doesn't always have to do with the color of his skin.

So the reason that Huckabee or Clinton were pushed out was just a decision from their party. Yes, i understand that. You are assuming that Clinton was pushed out due to Obama's race. You think that the democrats can play the race card and attain more votes than they could be using a woman to attain those same votes. You are going off pure assumption, you may be correct, but lets not play it off that because some internet hard ass says it's true, doesn't always make it true.

African Americans generally vote democrat anyway, why would they need a black candidate to get the voters they'd have gotten anyway? The goal is to get the swing voters. For whatever reason they thought Obama was the better man for the job, it doesn't always have to do with the color of his skin.[/quote]

Ok lets try this again.

"African Americans generally vote democrat anyway" Well thanks for the update . The key is getting them to the polls. In an election that is going to be so tight, they are going to need minority votes, and Hillary wasn't going to motivate them to vote like Obama would. Not even close. Ask Al Gore, or John Kerry, or even Michael Dukakis.

Also I never said it was strictly race that made the Democrats push Hillary out the door, its that Obama has a much better chance of winning. And if you don't think Obama has been handed this nomination on a silver platter, than you have your head in the sand. Once the Democrats saw how voters responded to Obama, Hillary should have packed up and went back to New York because it was all over. The combination of his color, his charisma, and the way he connected to the younger generation made the Democrats wet themselves, even though Hillary is a superior politician as far as job performance.

And what I said above isn't true because I said it was true, its true because its correct. I'm sure you can read all about it in Hillary's memoirs. I'm not inventing the wheel here.

datrain711 wrote:

And what I said above isn't true because I said it was true, its true because its correct. I'm sure you can read all about it in Hillary's memoirs. I'm not inventing the wheel here.

so from now on, whatever you say is gospel? got it. Last time i check, anytime you make a claim like "democrats pushed clinton out the door" you might consider using a source. As it stands, i'm not going to sit hear and accept everything a republican from Wisconsin thinks about social issues.

Use a source, have credibilty when you post.

The better candidate won between Obama and Clinton (you'll notice i did not use a source because what i just said was opinion).

Ollie Octagon wrote:

datrain711 wrote:

And what I said above isn't true because I said it was true, its true because its correct. I'm sure you can read all about it in Hillary's memoirs. I'm not inventing the wheel here.

so from now on, whatever you say is gospel? got it. Last time i check, anytime you make a claim like "democrats pushed clinton out the door" you might consider using a source. As it stands, i'm not going to sit hear and accept everything a republican from Wisconsin thinks about social issues.

Use a source, have credibilty when you post.


The better candidate won between Obama and Clinton (you'll notice i did not use a source because what i just said was opinion).

Ok next time I tell you that smoking is bad for you I'll link to the AMA website. And when I go on to tell you that the sky is clear I'll make sure to quote a metereologist.

From now on since you can't accept simple and published truths i'll just send you citations for every little quote. Maybe your life won't be so confusing then.

NEWSFLASH--something CAN be true even if you don't like it. If you spent 30 seconds trying to get informed you'll see what I told you. It is FACT!

You say the Democrats "forced Hillary out", I say she lost. The problem is that you call what you say fact and I call what I say opinion.

Fact would be, gravity pulls us to the earth. Opinion is, red is the best color.

Now that we have the parameters maybe we can discuss something else...perhaps our favorite colors? I'll start. Red.

Ollie Octagon wrote:You say the Democrats "forced Hillary out", I say she lost. The problem is that you call what you say fact and I call what I say opinion.

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat/318859/clinton_backer_mcgovern_time_for_hillary_to_quit

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/entertainment/democratic-leaders-ask-hillary-to-accept-defeat-for-party_10032524.html

http://www.financialexpress.com/news/Party-bosses-may-ask-Hillary-Clinton-to-quit/299018/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/30/hillary-clinton-deluged-w_n_94078.html?page=13


3 months before the primary was supposed to be over the head of the DNC publicly called out HIllary and told her to quit. Which then touched off an avalanche of detractors from her campaign. But hey, I guess that isn't a fact. Do you need more sources? I mean, Hillary still had a chance to win even though her party abandoned her right? Obama won simply because he was a better politician right?

Damn you Batman. You may have won this round but you will not win the war.